Sonic Youth Gossip - The Politics Thread

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- - The Politics Thread (http://www.sonicyouth.com/gossip/showthread.php?t=123593)

The Soup Nazi

11.11.2022 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

just because democrats are terrible communicators who can't properly tout their achievements it doesn't mean the industrial policy is not there.

Which is why it's even more infuriating that the best communicator in the party since AOC, Tim Ryan, lost to an absolute douche like Vance. Fuck the former swing state known as OH.

The Soup Nazi

11.11.2022 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _tunic_

Linda Paulsen should be your next President!!

Vote Linda!!

"The outcome of this election has not been called yet." Fuuuck me...

!@#$%!

11.12.2022 10:49 AM

mark kelly just won arizona

what, no, he won last night lolol

great!

--

nevada still a tossup

The Soup Nazi

11.12.2022 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

mark kelly just won arizona

what, no, he won last night lolol

great!

--

nevada still a tossup

Graham can cry all he wants, but the Senate is already blue. Fuck you, Lindsey! :fuckyou::D

The problem is the damn House:

- 21 races still 2 legit 2 quit ER I MEAN too close to call.
- Republicans lead in 10 of them. They need only 7 more victories.
- Goddamn those people in California take their sweet time counting votes.
- Fuck.

!@#$%!

11.12.2022 11:02 PM

aaaaand cortez masto just won nevada hahahaha

democrats keep the senate with kamala as tiebreaker. here's to warnock winning next month and locking georgia.

The Soup Nazi

11.12.2022 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

here's to warnock winning next month and locking georgia.

Not to mention diminishing Manchin's power. Pretty sweet. The only reason I'm not 100% happy about the Senate results is that two more senators would have canceled the Sinema Show as well, which is why I'm still pissed about shitty Ohio. But hey, I'll take it. :)

Skuj	11.13.2022 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

sounds like the demonrats (lol) have managed to partially stem the bleeding. good!

the maga promotion strategy was playing with fire/flirting with disaster, but i'm glad someone in the democratic party had both the balls & brains to go with it, because repukes are corrupted to the core and will enable trumpians shamelessly. just look at how they crucified darth cheney's spawn. so this was very good judo. nevertherless, borderline or deeply irresponsible depending on how you look at it. i have no opinion.

anyway the reason i did not go hysterical through all of this fucked ordeal was that because unlike outside observers commenting on another country i have to live through this shit and can't afford to be a *gynormous* pussy about it.

we have dodged half a bullet. the other half is still flying. we're on the same side, but please quit it with the fucking tears, it's not just embarrassing but actually demoralizing, and if these were trenches you'd be shot for it.

Um....were you talking to me?

Skuj	11.13.2022 06:10 PM

Anyway....wow!! A red ripple. Who would have thunked?

And Trump....finally!! This is the turning point that I've been waiting for years for, right? He can't come back from this like he did after Jan 6th, can he? He is officially a steaming pile of dogshit now, right? (And I don't care what he announces on Tuesday.)

!@#$%!

11.13.2022 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skuj

Um....were you talking to me?

hahahah

not exactly

there's just this general tendency in this thread for people to lose their shit at the first sign of trouble (or second, or third, or thousandth).

i mean, for some of us, it's like being inside a building on fire trying to figure out how to put out the fire or how to escape alive, while people looking from outside the window are screaming in panic that we're gonna die horribly and how can this fire be. but we who are inside have to keep a cool fucking head and do the right thing in the meantime.

but you know what, we've survived this one, so i don't give a damn about all the negative emoting or terror at this point hahahahaaa. if people wanna scream their heads off at this point fine by me, i won't be bothered.

anyway we're safe--for now. i gotta rest and get ready for the next one. it's been a really rough fucking year of negative expectations and i need a little celebration of a disaster averted.

!@#$%!

11.13.2022 11:38 PM

sssso it looks like the kids might have saved us

https://www.dw.com/en/us-midterms-ge...ard/a-63734652

thanks, kids! :)

https://time.com/6232272/generation-...erm-elections/

The Soup Nazi

11.14.2022 04:25 PM

From The Washington Post. (Spoiler alert: a Wire reference! :cool:)

Quote:

Opinion | Republicans lost the election — and so did Putin, MBS and Netanyahu

By Max Boot
Columnist

Democrats just had one of the strongest showings in the past century for a president’s party in midterm elections, while many of the candidates endorsed by former president Donald Trump lost. Those results are not only shaking up domestic politics — they will also reverberate abroad. Dictators and right-wing populists who were hoping that Trump would return to power are sure to be disappointed, while the United States’ democratic allies can breathe a little easier.

Both Kyiv and Moscow were watching the election results closely. Ukrainians were apprehensive that if Republicans won power, U.S. aid to their country would be cut off. That’s a legitimate concern, given that Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.), who may be the next House speaker, said that Ukraine would no longer have a “blank check.”

In fact, given the Russian army’s dismal combat performance, a U.S. aid cutoff is Vladimir Putin’s best bet to win the war. That helps to explain why the Kremlin once again activated its trolls and bots before Election Day to help the MAGA movement. Russian propagandists even said that Putin avoided announcing the Russian withdrawal from Kherson until the day after the vote so as not to give a lift to Biden and Democrats. Democrats still did well — and Russia did badly.

Another country that might have benefited from a Democratic defeat is China. That’s not because Republicans are pro-China; while there is a lot of sympathy for Putin in MAGA world, there is none for Xi Jinping. But as the United States’ foremost geostrategic challenger, China benefits from a weak president and a divided America.

Xi just won another five years in power from the Chinese Communist Party conference. He would be in a stronger position meeting Biden on Monday, at the Group of 20 summit in Bali, if the U.S. president had just suffered repudiation at the polls. While Biden hasn’t had his term extended, he has been given a new lease on life: He won’t be a lame duck for the next two years. That enables him to parley with Xi from a position of greater strength — all the more so since inflation slowed in October, suggesting that the U.S. economy may avoid a recession.

The election was also being closely watched in the Middle East, where many of the United States’ illiberal allies have been pining for the days when Trump gave them a pass on their atrocious human rights records. I recently talked with a reporter from an Arab country who told me that her government is locking up more journalists while ignoring protests from the State Department because its rulers are counting on Trump to come back in two years. That seems less likely now, which adds to the pressure on Arab states to listen more carefully to what the Biden administration is telling them.

A test case will be in Egypt, where the administration is doing “everything we can” (in the words of national security adviser Jake Sullivan) to secure the release of British Egyptian political prisoner Alaa Abdel Fattah, who is on a hunger strike in an Egyptian prison. Biden just met with Egyptian ruler Abdel Fatah El-Sisi at the climate summit in Sharm el-Sheikh. Sisi may still not do the right thing, but he at least has more incentive to listen to what the U.S. president says now than he might have had a week ago.

Another Middle Eastern regime that has been giving Biden the middle finger is Saudi Arabia. In July, Biden traveled to the kingdom to meet with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman despite his role in ordering the murder of Post contributor Jamal Khashoggi. Biden hoped to win agreement from Saudi Arabia to maintain high oil production to moderate inflationary pressure since the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

MBS, as he’s widely known, refused to oblige in what was widely seen as an attempt to hurt Biden politically and usher in the return of his MAGA friends. The Wall Street Journal reported that MBS “mocks President Biden in private … has told advisers he hasn’t been impressed with Mr. Biden since his days as vice president, and much preferred former President Donald Trump.”

Well, as Omar Little said in “The Wire,” “You come at the king, you best not miss.” MBS missed — and now he will have to deal with an empowered Biden.

Benjamin Netanyahu, who is returning as Israel’s prime minister, is yet another Middle Eastern leader who preferred Trump to Biden. Now he will have to listen more carefully when Biden tells him not to annex parts of the West Bank as demanded by the right-wing members of his coalition.

I don’t want to exaggerate the impact of the election. The United States remains divided politically, and Republicans may still take over the House. But the unexpectedly strong showing by Democrats leaves Biden in a stronger position not only at home but also abroad. U.S. democracy looks healthier today than it did a week ago — to the delight of fellow democracies and the dismay of dictatorships.

!@#$%!

11.14.2022 10:11 PM

wheeeeeeee! kari f. lake eats shit tonight! (f. stands for fucking)

arizona dodged a lying fascist maga bullet. massive relief!

many thanks to all the kids who voted and saved us all

The Soup Nazi

11.14.2022 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

wheeeeeeee! kari f. lake eats shit tonight! (f. stands for fucking)

arizona dodged a lying fascist maga bullet

NOICE. Another spit on 45's face! So AZ is cool now? :D

!@#$%!

11.14.2022 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

NOICE. Another spit on 45's face! So AZ is cool now? :D

that there pictured are the asu kids who lined up to vote in spite of delays hahahhaaaa

thanks, kids! the kids saved us.

https://www.statepress.com/article/2...n-asu-midterms

The Soup Nazi

11.15.2022 04:52 PM

Russian missiles cross into Poland during strike, kill 2

The Soup Nazi

11.15.2022 05:45 PM

How fucking stupid is the Russian military. Now NATO cannot not respond, even if it's by proxy, which they've already been doing all year, but twice as hard.

The Soup Nazi

11.15.2022 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skuj

And Trump....finally!! This is the turning point that I've been waiting for years for, right? He can't come back from this like he did after Jan 6th, can he? He is officially a steaming pile of dogshit now, right? (And I don't care what he announces on Tuesday.)

Doucheturd just announced his big

. Do NOT count him out like in 2016.

tw2113

11.15.2022 10:58 PM

Oompa Loompa 2 eh?

The Soup Nazi

11.16.2022 01:14 AM

M'kay, so while the numerous worldwide shitshows happen, why don't we play Political Compass? Take the test! Get your personalized certificate! But before you do any of that, I strongly recommend you read about the site/watch their video and take a look at their articles, so you'll know who's gonna be analyzing your choices, you follow. It's all here:

https://www.politicalcompass.org/

Fun times!

The Soup Nazi

11.16.2022 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

Do NOT count him out like in 2016.

It Begins Again

!@#$%!

11.16.2022 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

just scored "left libertarian" as i have been doing for ages.only this time it did not put me so far to the left as ages ago. which would be correct as my ideas on markets and economics have evolved with time.

the test has some glaring flaws. the most obvious one is that it lacks an option "neither agree nor disagree," so it forces you take up a position where you might have none.

there are other issues with it but eh, this is only a game of couse, so it is fun.

here's another one: https://www.theadvocates.org/quiz/

(i scored "moderate" as i expected. lol, how bland)

again overly simplistic questions with oversimplifying answers as options but good for laughs.

it would be cool to compare & discuss answers & reasons though.

Skuj	11.16.2022 04:27 PM

I wish I could understand the GOP.

Isn't McCarthy one of the least inspiring, morally unanchored, DUMBEST Speakers in USA history? Like, there was nobody better?

!@#$%!

11.16.2022 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skuj

I wish I could understand the GOP.

Isn't McCarthy one of the least inspiring, morally unanchored, DUMBEST Speakers in USA history? Like, there was nobody better?

here's something more interesting to consider than that fool's i.q. or spinelessness:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...e-republicans/

Opinion The Senate’s victory on same-sex marriage should terrify the GOP
By Jennifer Rubin

long story and strategic analysis boils down to: "And therein lies the problem for the GOP. Republicans face a number of quandaries these days that force them to choose between loyalty to the MAGA cult and general-election viability."

i'll let soupnazi copypaste the whole text if you can't read it, but it looks like a big republican split is about to happen.... fingers crossed, they're trapped.

The Soup Nazi

11.16.2022 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i'll let soupnazi copypaste the whole text if you can't read it

By popular demand...

Quote:

Opinion | The Senate’s victory on same-sex marriage should terrify the GOP

By Jennifer Rubin
Columnist

The Senate advanced a bill on Wednesday to codify protections for same-sex marriage, attracting enough Republican votes to overcome the filibuster. Take a moment to consider the breathtaking shift in American attitudes that this represents.

In 2008, President Barack Obama was not willing to embrace same-sex marriage. Now, even the Mormon Church has endorsed the bill. A critical mass of Republicans understand that same-sex marriage is here to stay. Whatever their personal views, they grasp that opposition to it signifies a level of bigotry even many GOP voters are unwilling to tolerate.

The simple political reality is this: Outside deep-red enclaves, Republicans cannot maintain their anti-same-sex marriage stance without marginalizing themselves. It’s part of a slow recognition that their adoption of Christian nationalist positions alienates a substantial portion of voters.

There might be some risk for Republicans embracing same-sex marriage. Right-wing gadflies such as Ben Shapiro have already called to excommunicate Republicans who support same-sex marriage. It’s possible that Wednesday’s vote sets up incumbent Republicans to face primary challengers from Christian nationalists.

And therein lies the problem for the GOP. Republicans face a number of quandaries these days that force them to choose between loyalty to the MAGA cult and general-election viability. Do they reject former president Donald Trump in the primaries and risk him dragging down the party if he runs as an independent in 2024? Do they recruit more non-election deniers for House, Senate and state offices, understanding that those who question the legitimacy of elections are proven losers?

But no question looms larger than how they intend to win office while maintaining the support of Christian nationalists whose views are antithetical to a supermajority of Americans — and this goes beyond same-sex marriage. We saw what support for rigid abortion bans did to Republicans in the midterms. Michigan went entirely blue largely because independent women went overwhelmingly for Democrats to protect abortion rights. But if pro-forced-birth Republicans try to course-correct, dropping proposals for a national ban, they risk offending a large constituency.

As Robert P. Jones, president of the Public Religion Research Institute, explains in a Substack post, the midterms served as a reminder that “an overwhelming majority of Americans do not favor extreme policies like bans on abortion. Even in a red state like Kentucky, voters rejected an anti-abortion amendment.” He points out that polling has regularly revealed that “nearly seven in ten Americans and six in ten midterm voters say abortion should be legal in all or most cases. That is the mainstream view on abortion.”

But it’s far from the mainstream view among elected Republicans. Indeed, Jones writes, “the percentage saying abortion should be illegal in ALL cases has dropped from 23% in 2020 to 11% in late 2022.”

Put differently, Republican officials find themselves held hostage by their most extreme primary voters. Virtually all GOP presidential primary candidates will feel compelled to adopt a strict antiabortion stance to have any hope of winning primaries. Meanwhile, if Republicans win the House majority, it might be impossible for them to resist the urge to put a nationwide abortion ban on the House floor. The next time Republicans are up for election (potentially with more abortion-related measures on the ballot), they might feel the wrath of voters again.

To some extent, rigid opposition to gun reform lands Republicans in a similar place. As voters (even Republicans) warm to reasonable limits on weapons of war, Republicans are caught between the demands of Second Amendment extremists and the desire to avoid being labeled as out of touch with the fears many parents have for their children’s safety.

Republicans are finding out there is a penalty to be paid for cultural extremism, but they have yet to show they are capable of preserving general-election viability. Over the next two years, as MAGA forces double down in the GOP House caucus and Trump fights with primary opponents for the support of the GOP base, Democrats will be delighted to watch Republicans marginalize themselves. During that time, Democrats will look for opportunities to put measures related to abortion and other cultural issues on the ballot in 2024. If that approach worked to drive Democrats to the polls in 2022, there is no reason to think it won’t work again in 2024.

This is what happens when a national political party becomes almost entirely dependent on a group whose views are far out of the American mainstream. One of the great revelations of the 2022 midterms was that Democrats can run on cultural issues and win outside of deep-blue districts and states. They’d be foolish not to try to re-create that success.

The Soup Nazi

11.16.2022 10:17 PM

Hmm, so NATO says the missile(s) that landed in Poland was/were actually a Ukrainian misfire. Dunno how the hell that happens, but fuck it, Vlad's wonderful, let's go Brandon, whatever...

The Soup Nazi

11.16.2022 10:44 PM

The Soup Nazi

11.16.2022 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

it would be cool to compare & discuss answers & reasons though.

Yes, I forgot to mention that, for starters, we should post our results here. Here's how I just did:

The Soup Nazi

11.16.2022 11:18 PM

I can't help having a problem with the term libertarian. If left/right are reserved for the economic scale, shouldn't the social scale be liberal/authoritarian?

!@#$%!

11.16.2022 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

I can't help having a problem with the term libertarian. If "left" and "right" are reserved for the economic scale, shouldn't the social scale be liberal and authoritarian?

you're right, and i'd say libertarian is an extreme form of liberalism (in the philosophical tradition).

but given that america has destroyed language and equates "liberal" with "socialist", it's hard not to confuse terms. in american political terminology the liberal and the libertarian are polar opposites almost.

this test of course elevates "libertarian" to a higher status than it deserves. but yeah it's just a minor offshoot of a bigger tradition. but anyway, shit happens to words too.

on other synonyms:
left libertarian would be anarchist
right libertarian used to be called anarcho-capitalist (among other things)

anyway i didnt screencap my results but it looks like yours only economically closer to the middle (but still to the left).

!@#$%!

11.16.2022 11:45 PM

and now for something completely different...

amirite? :D

The Soup Nazi

11.17.2022 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

and now for something completely different...

Ah yes, the classic. I actually associate that expression with Meg Tilly in Abel Ferrara's Body Snatchers (the third adaptation of the same book).

Whatever happened to Meg Tilly anyways? Her older sister Jennifer secured immortality with her girl-on-girl action in Bound...

The Soup Nazi

11.17.2022 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

you're right, and i'd say libertarian is an extreme form of liberalism (in the philosophical tradition).

Taught to me in high school as "libertad vs libertinaje", or freedom without consequences. But, Christ on a stick, at that point this shitty country was barely coming out of the Opus Dei medievalism: Jesus was invoked in courts of law, cable TV self-censored, and forget about divorce, which was only legalized THIS century - that's even worse than Ireland!

The Soup Nazi

11.17.2022 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

long story and strategic analysis boils down to: "And therein lies the problem for the GOP. Republicans face a number of quandaries these days that force them to choose between loyalty to the MAGA cult and general-election viability."

The irony is that 45 doesn't give a flying fuck about abortion or same-sex marriage; he just gave the dementially ultraconservative members of Congress and the Federalist Society and all that horseshit something to rely on, and in the process fired up the retarded MAGA mass. And vice versa.

Now, racism, xenophobia (excepting Norway!), misogyny, and authoritarianism - that's most certainly not an act, as we all know.

!@#$%!

11.17.2022 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

Ah yes, the classic. I actually associate that expression with Meg Tilly in Abel Ferrara's Body Snatchers (the third adaptation of the same book).

the one i posted is some english "princess", whatever that means

!@#$%!

11.17.2022 12:35 PM

back to meritocracies, nancy pelosi will not be minority leader in the next congress. it's the end of an era.

i hope someone as competent as she's been can replace her. the way she's wrangled the undisciplined democrats is impressive.

steny hoyer is her second in command, but is older than her, and the party needs new blood.

--

eta: ok, steny hoyer just said he's out. open race!

--

eta, later: who is hakeem jeffries?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...-pelosi-house/

Quote:

In an interview with the Atlantic last year, Jeffries described where he fit into in today’s political landscape, saying, “I’m a Black progressive Democrat concerned with addressing racial and social and economic injustice with the fierce urgency of now.” He added, “There will never be a moment where I bend the knee to hard-left democratic socialism.”

The Soup Nazi

11.17.2022 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

“There will never be a moment where I bend the knee to hard-left democratic socialism.”

Yah well that shouldn't be a problem, considering THERE'S NO HARD LEFT in Congress.

You innocent Unitedstateseans. :)

!@#$%!

11.17.2022 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

Yah well that shouldn't be a problem, considering THERE'S NO HARD LEFT in Congress.

You innocent Unitedstateseans. :)

me, personally, i don't have a problem with that.

state ownership of the economy? ooof, no thanks.

i like markets.

The Soup Nazi

11.17.2022 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

state ownership of the economy? ooof, no thanks.

I don't want that either. Speaking of loaded terms, I know "democratic socialism" is one of them, but regardless of how they label themselves that is not what Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez are actually proposing.

!@#$%!

11.17.2022 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi

bernie actually wants state ownership of the healthcare sector, and his reply to how he's going to accomplish that with everything it entails is "we're going to have a movement..." by which i assume it's going to be marches and street protests and songs with fists raised.

i'm sorry, no, no thanks, internationale. with obamacare we're closer to the swiss model than to anything else out there. improvement is within reach.

except that unlike switzerland, in size and structure we're closer to the entire european union. the european union doesn't have brussels-owned healthcare for all member countries.

benie offers pie in the sky.

i'll take a public option though. a public option (not a mandate) is doable.

but that can also be done at the state and local level, btw.

The Soup Nazi

11.17.2022 08:41 PM

It is indeed absolutely insane -inhumane, in fact- that you don't have a competitive public option. Shit, even here, in the Chicago Boys laboratory, there is one...

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