Or for sure. Yes. Liberals are not at all excluded. I meant to make that clear with my comment, but I didn't I guess.

There's an active social media presence called (something like) "I'm with Her... Forever" and they're posting Hilary 2020 signs. Even I, who voted for her THRICE, don't have enough face to palm when I see that shit. She fucked up, and she's not coming back, but hey, great to know there are thousands of voting Americans who are that fucking deluded. Like hearing people shout "NINETY-SIX, NINETY-SIX" at Dan Quayle during the concessions in '92. Tha fuck?!

Dunno about Israel. Never been there, but don't tell Roger Waters that you miss it. He'll slut shame your ass. :D

i like joe biden but he'd be a one-termer. i think he's got the charisma and enough sense (but don't let him tell you to put a shotgun thru the door).

i love elizabeth warren but i dont know if she could seal the deal with america. we'll see.

but more important than the presidency, mental unstables excluded, is to regain control of the house and the senate. that's what democrats keep missing the point about.

what's the legislative program what's the contract with america they're offering? what's the new-new deal? can't just be a cult of personality. where's the 10-point program?

Have you noticed Elizabeth Warren has been the target of a character assassination attempt based on her position at Harvard and her divulging her Cherokee heritage to get said position. Hard to know what's real, but it's obviously a well-engineered attack, becaue it's rooted in semi-truths. Yes, she taught at Harvard with a light class load, yes she somehow mentioned her Native American heritage on her application/cover letter/urriculum vitae/whatsver, yes she probably made a lot, but ... y'know... it's Harvard and she's a sitting senator, so professor emeritus status works in the college's favor.

Anyway, I think she's been toasted and will not run. She has been labeled "establishment" just like her old frenemy Hillary. I think she can still do a lot of good, and I love her too, but I don't think a presidential bid is in her future.

I'd vote Biden in a heartbeat, but he won't run either.

New blood is needed, and desperately. Not just federally, but on the state and even county/city level.

some people think david brooks is a stain upon humanity due to his party affiliation but ive always found him to be a reasonable and principled conservative.

and now he takes a look at the impending destruction of his own party: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/29/o...-politics.html

Brooks & his ilk are a big part of where we are now. Fuck him. Warren would never run for national office, she's too comfy in an assured seat in the Senate. If the mysogynist vote got Clinton, just imagine what it would do to her...I'm expecting a big Tim Kaine campaign...I'd vote for him,especially if he had one of the Castro twins as veep. Those guys have some great Democratic future. I'd imagine they are well vetted, being from TX and having probably been investigated by Rethug operatives for many years.

will, i try not to be hyperpartisan and put everyone in the same lot. with brooks i disagree a lot but i've never seen him as a spiteful or poisonous presence in national politics. i feel the same about george will, who is even farther to the right than brooks. you may disagree, but you can reason against their reasoning. it's a fair and civilized debate.

it's much better to have rational conservatives as the opposition than the tribalistic hordes we have to face right now, oblivious to fact and logic and any kind of sense. i miss sensible republicans for sure.

i don't think hillary lost due to misoginy. not saying that wasn't there, of course it's there, but she was also simply a terrible candidate who's taken almost a year to realize (per her recent book) that she should have told trump at the debates to physically back off her. that type of wit of the staircase-- such a long long staircase-- shows zero instincts. and a leader needs good instincts, right then and there, not months later. sorry man. she might have ben qualified but she sucked as a campaigner.

as for kaine... i found him boring, but who knows what he'll do when he's allowed to steal the spotlight? i didn't see much from him as hillary's jabroni.

also i don't know julián castro so i have zero opinion. but would be nice to see someone capable for a change.

No Tim Kaine. I think his history with the DNC makes him vulnerable.

Have you guys been taking to Dems about this stuff (assuming you have friends who are Dems or progressives as haven't fully gone off the rails in one way or another)? I have, ahhh... not many, but a few, Dem friends who have maintained some semblance of reason, and they're all quite irate about the DNC.

What I'm hearing is a desire for someone new, and a wish to get a fuckton of distance between the party of 2018-20 and that of 2916-17.

Have you experienced anything like this? I'm really interested, not being snarky.

My gut tells me that someone new needs to run. The vehemence of the hatred for the Democratic Party, even among many democrats, is fucking astounding to me, but it's there. And Republicans use "liberal" like it's the freaking N-word these days.

Tim Kaine broke my heart a little when he talked about liking rap. Yeesh. "They call me Lil' Kaine." Wasn't that what he said? Poor guy.

Extremely sensible, and I believe capable leader, but WINTER HAS COME, and we need someone different, challenging, new, preferably young.

we had someone different, challenging, new and young in obama, but the legislative majority only lasted 2 years. the rest was a calvary with the enemy promptly gaining the upper hand.

we don't need so much "leaders" as an organized populace, the same way the tea party elected a fuckton of people to congress.

and yes, some of that was astroturfed, but moe tucker was not astroturfed, and it wasn't a purely artificial phenomenon.

problem with the left is they always end up arguing stupid bullshit and splintering into factions. watch "the life of brian" for the perfect hilarious example.

Bahahaha!

Hey, I'm just saying, "here's what I'm hearing from people, and here's what I think those people would like to see."

I already said I felt the "battle" should be fought on every level, down to city and county councils and commissions even! More imprortant are the legislative seats, yes, but it's also wise to vet a good candidate for the Oval Office (or, the high chair, which, I think we can all agree, is what it has become).

I'd vote for Kaine in a heartbeat. Better yet Biden. But I'm not hearing that sentiment from people in my district. I'm just sharing what I'm learning, is all.

What are your peeps sayin'?

my peeps would all vote democrat if the dems fielded a dead donkey on a hoverboard with a lab rat as runningmate, but that's besides the point.

family is all democrat. my friends unfortunately are a bunch of idealist fools who're paving the way for some distant revolution that will never come. im the "right winger" of the bunch with my pro-market answers to social problems, and shit like that.

it's the "independents" that you have to win over.

I will be the nominee in 2020.

Brooks has been particularly bad regarding false equivalency, thus he has been a midwife to awful baby trump.

come on, so many things have been a midwife to trump:

hilary's email server

uma's idiot husband and his stupid dick

democrats calling varmint guns "assault rifles" and alienating rural voters

hillary's super-dull speeches

berniebros refusing to compromise

habtes refusing to believe that trump could win

etc.

here a writer from forbes blames brooks for trump, but from a different perspective:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michael.../#4df50bbd711e

look, you could even say that biden's son dying kept biden from running and thus trump won

everything and everyone was midwife to trump. where does it end?

making distinctions is a good thing. discriminating between a& b is a good thing. brooks is not and never will be bannon. better 1000 brookses than 1 david duke.

well, I sure won't attack Clinton, Biden and Kaine while praising Brooks and G
Fwill :confused:

well i think hillary was more midwife to trump than some nyt journalist the masses don't read

time for Bernie! :rolleyes:

he's young at heart :D

Nah, he's old at heart, which is part of why I like him.

Young people are

Either Amy Klobuchar or Kirsten Gillibrand would get my unwavering support in 2020.

Misogynists can suck my cock.

Both are super awesome. Drawback? Hard-to-pronounce last names.


Trump could win in 2020. It's true. I know! Crazy! But entirely possible.