yes this was precisely my point. indeed never trump is luring many Republicans across party lines meanwhile we haven't even seen all the "undecided" folks make their choice when the numbers strongly suggest these are largely leaning towarss democrats. its an unprecedented 20% undecided in many polls (though i rarely take much away from polls) and considering the temporary success of FeelTheBern im betting 5-10% of those will vote for Overlord Hillary, some might Trump or more likely third party, and some just won't vote.

Of course, anyone who Felt The Bern and was enthusiastic about Sanders but ends up voting Trump is a wretched mook who didn't and doesn't understand jack shit, is sniping scattershot, and should be banned from voting on account of being a bitch-ass retard.

personally after Sanders totally caved and sold out to Overlord Hillary by endorsing her i dare say anyone who felt the bern at all was fairly bitch ass gullible to begin with ;)

what you call "selling out" *in this particular scenario* others call being a responsible adult

what would you have him do? call for a doomed revolution, hand the keys to the kingdom to republicans, self-immolate in a pyre?

i mean-- the man is 75 years old, not 13. i think he's over throwing tantrums at this point in his life.

that is absolute bullshit and you know it as well as i do. he could have supported the party, de facto endorsing Overlord Hillary, without actually outright endorsing her. his candidacy was supposedly about a radical criticism of the mainline party norms, seems crass not responsible to kowtow to the party for really no reason at all.



not at all, why are you so obsessed with false dichotomies? its like you are hard wired to always see everything and everyone through a polarity.


I can't tell you how many people who Felt the Bern were very very antagonistic against Overlord Hillary. i knew all along he would endorse her, but his campaign milked their support and so he titled towards attacking her very character in the final months of the primaries. it was unnecessarily ugly to be frank.

he pandered to them then sold them out and now they are burned and discouraged. they would have voted for other democrats in local and congressional spots even if not for Hillary, now? many just won't vote.

of course a lot of berniebros are bummed out and burned out and throwing tantrums because they couldn't get all they wanted for christmas.

endorsing the democratic party without endorsing hillary would be a ridiculous maneuver. laughable, insulting, and ultimately undermining. what would he accomplish with that, exactly? give the republicans more fodder? absurd.

it surprises me that for someone who studies history you don't get that politics, if it aims to serve the people, is about getting results, not about making empty gestures. but see, no-- i remember you criticizing pussy riot for more or less that. so which one is it? me, i think it's fitting for pussy riot to make empty gestures because they're young and they're in the propaganda business and they're not in charge of anything

bernie sanders isn't pussy riot though. he's a leader of the liberal wing of a very large party that has other factions that want a piece of the next administration. if he's going to have a positive impact in the next 4 years he needs to get a place at the table and have some influence, not make himself a pariah by acting childish.

because he is a mature, responsible, somewhat wise individual, i'm guessing he figures he can put aside his pride and his ego and serve a bigger cause than self-aggrandizing through empty adolescent gestures.

should the democrats win, he'll have elizabeth warren as the leading democrat in the senate, he'll have access to the administration, and then they can start making a difference where it counts which is writing and enacting policies that benefit the working and middle class.

taking your toys and walking away doesn't get you anybody to play with.

38 billion deal with Israel not enough? war. we love it!

 

The "Clinton's obviously going to win" sentiment on the last few pages really bothers me.

You're wrong!

Damn it, people. ASSUME Trump is well on his way to winning, and adjust attitudes and behavior accordingly. This is sanity.

yes

+2

Remember how a lot of people thought there was no way Dubya would ever be elected?

Hell, it goes back further than that. The story of the tortoise (Drump) and the hare (HRC) spells it out. Say what you will about the basket of deplorables. But they are organized and very motivated. If every person of goodwill just lays back and assumes Clinton automatically has it made, I can tell you who will win the election. And it won't be Hillary.

you guys are all cute. actually a lot of people DID think bush II could get elected, he was more centrist, toned done rhetoric, and nationally electable

haha trump ain't winning shit... media is reporting skewed polls and 24/7 Trump coverage because it is must see TV, click bait, and good ratings. trump isn't winning shit but the TV/media narrative wants us all to believe he will because it makes his opponents afraid (fear sells) and his opponents cocky (hubris sells too)

frankly im starting to think yall are giving trump credit to be superstitious

I'm sure living in California--especially in LA--could lull a person into thinking Trump hasn't got a chance. California is a solidly blue state. But things aren't the same everywhere across the country. There is a lot of support for Trump. And while a lot of Trump's supporters belong in HRC's "Basket Of Deplorables", a lot don't. Listen to NPR, or check out a lot of the people who live in northeast Ohio, Land Of Evollove. A lot of Rust Belt residents don't like Trump's racism, sexism, etc. But they are supporting Trump out of economic desperation. I've heard and read a lot of interviews with them. I think their support for Donnie The Clown is misguided but these people, whose towns have been devastated by long-closed factories, have real fears that need to be addressed. Clinton has spoken of the need for retraining and helping out people in such areas, but she hasn't done nearly enough of it. Yes, the factories started closing long before the ill-advised trade deals came about, and people shouldn't be waiting for some savior to come along and magically bring the old jobs back. Fuck the hardcore right-wingers, they'll vote for Trump if he rubbed dog shit in their hair. But the economically disenfranchised have the numbers to put Drump over the top. This thing is far from over.

On edit: I'm showing my age here. But prior to the 1972 election, a lot of people--many conservatives included--thought Nixon was a slimy, shady liar. Yeah, any Democrat could knock him off! George McGovern--the Bernie Sanders of his time--won just Massachusetts and the District of Columbia. And while Clinton would never lose in a landslide like that, sitting back and waiting for an "inevitable" HRC victory will do nothing but guarantee the inauguration of President Trump.

there is something DEEPLY stupid in us/uk politics where people think the government can magically reintroduce lifetime medium wage manufacturing jobs because its gonna spank the offshorers and they'll come back and operate at a loss

aint. fucking. happening.

automation has obsolesced most of the things the body can do.

deal with it or keep stalling your lives and economies.

oh we have a very solid and powerful GOP block, its not the liberal paradise everyone around the country imagine. i work in a very conservative community, in 2012 i saw nothing but Romney signs, even teenagers enthusiastically wearing Romney t-shirts. however in 2016 no Trump ANYTHING. Trump is only doing well in the media, in real life most non-dingbat Republicans can't STAND him. he is the embodiment of the TEA party but TEA party was always a vocal minority of GOP.


sure, but it never really rises above 35-40% and even THAT is a projection. STOP THE FEAR MONGERING.


is that why almost every established GOP leader has come out and dissed Trump? just saw Bob Gates.denounce Trump as "a fool"


so? so Ohio is the entire country now? fuck what a bunch of braindead white people think. if they are dumb enough to think Trump will help them they are already.revealing their level of intelligence. why take such stupid people seriously?



did you forget for most of its history rust belt was Blue Dog pro Union Democrats yes? shouldnt forget that when a clown like trump is the GOP. sure sometimes they voted for centrist Republicans BUT Trump doesn't fit that mold.

Nixon was a total slime ball.BUT he was also a MASTER politician, had been a very popular Vice president, and ran a rather tame campaign in 1968 compared to Trump. now sure, two yeara ago i thought Nixon.was a textbook example of how the Republicans would win 2016 based on all the racism against Obama just like Tricky Dick won on the "silent majority" of resentful white people who were pissed off about the Civil Rights movement.

this is not 1968. Nixon in hindsight seems unelectable, but in the 50s and 60s he was very popular and respected, things that Trump simply is NOT.

Cleveland and Ohio, yall just won the NBA championship, don't worry about Trump, if anything just have Lebron be a write in candidate

Because they can vote. Their vote, in fact, counts as much a Nobel laureate's.

Seriously dude, your bubble is air tight.

sure but they are a declining constituency which everyone seems to be giving to much credit towards. i don't live on a bubble, but yall seem to be letting Trump's bubble mess with your heads

i think as i read that the point here is that everyone else is talking about possibilities and probabilities and scenarios, but you're the only one talking about certainties

that's the air tight bubble i think--the blind faith in your own predictive capacities and refusal to be receptive to the ideas of others

people try to put arguments forward to say "this could happen" or "that could happen," but all you do is dismiss them like no thought other than your own can cross your mind and your thoughts are 100% guaranteed correct. that i think is where it gets frustrating.

its not that white people are braindead, its that the white people support Trump are braindead and to be sure the ONLY support Trump has is with braindead white people