Sonic Youth boycotting AZ: Fucking Sheep!!
 

You aren't punishing anybody but your fans! Seriously, how much income do you think you bring to the state with a single concert anyway? You aren't exactly Rage Against the Machine in terms of ticket sales. Jesus! Me and my friends were looking forward to seeing you so much! Me especially since I missed your last concert here. Oh well. Not that I support the bill or anything. I want it gone as much as the next person but not for a lot of the completely bogus nonesense that's being tossed around about it. Have you ever READ the bill? Because so far just about everyone who's called for a boycott has publicly admitted to having not read what's in the document. The biggest douche bag is Ed Reyes of LA, here he is:

"Los Angeles the second-largest city in this country, an immigrant city, an international city. It needs to have its voice heard. As an American, I cannot go to Arizona today without a passport. If I come across an officer who's having a bad day and feels that the picture on my ID is not me, I can be … deported, no questions asked. That is not American.''

Not only is it "not American" it's also 100% false. As an american, a HISPANIC AMERICAN NO!! YOU WILL NOT BE STOPPED OR HASSLED OR DEPORTED!!! I cannot believe people are cottoning onto this overblown bullshit so much. How do you deport an american citizine? The very idea is 100% ridiculous. As a hispanic person I assure you. I walk to school everyday at ASU. I walk home. I drive my car, I pull up next to cops at stop lights, I go to the grocery store, I'm living my life and NOTHING HAS CHANGED FOR ME! People keep saying this bill is anti-immigration and that's wrong. It's anti ILLEGAL immigration and it's basically nothing other than a different play on words for laws that are already and have been in action in this state for YEARS. It's funny that LA would come out with such a steaming load of BS since Los Angeles has equally if not harsher ways of dealing with ILLEGAL immigrants than Arizona does.

Also who does boycotting hurt? The business industry which in Arizona employs a vast number on legal and illegal immigrants. And what happens when business takes at hit? They let people go. If any of these boycotts are a success one end result is going to be thousands of legal and illegal immigrants alike finding themselves without a job. I don't even know how this hype started! YES the birther bill is VERY embarrassing and a total tarnish to the image of Arizona, and this bill passing right afterward probably made the intentions seem that they'd be evident, but believe me, nothing has changed for me and I'm hispanic, and I love Sonic Youth and now I can't see them and it's bullshit. This isn't coming from a political view, I'm not a republican, or anything. Just a Sonic Youth fan living in Arizona, and actually knows what's up.

dude, the bill is bogus, its not the state's business to directly enforce federal and specifically immigration (ie, international) law. AZ fucked up.. sorry SY aint showin up, but if you are against the law, then you should support the actions of one of your favorite bands as they stand up against it.
Youth Against Fascism
fuck sb1070, all bullshit aside, it is a racist law, proposed and pushed by racist motherfuckers, and WE ALL know it. Big up Sonic Youth, maximum raspect.

No disrespect at all man, but the law was ONLY pushed by a desperate crappy governor who needed to look in control because it's an election year, and what better way to get props where drug cartels and illegal border crossing is rampant than to pass a law that seems to take care of the issue. I'm not disagreeing with you, the law itself is racist and does offend me, but as I said it's nothing other than a new play on words for laws that have been in act for YEARS and therefor my life hasn't changed for better or worse. Whether the law was passed or not, corrupt cops would do what they want to do, but the thing about this bill is that it actually has law enforcement scared shitless because there are a number of new ways in which they are now more suseptable to lawsuits and a couple of county Sherrifs (obviously not Arpaio) have come out in opposition to the law as well because it will only hurt law enforcement in the end.

I say this because the image people seem to have in their heads is that the current state of Arizona is just like Alambama in 1962 or something and it's not the case. When my friend got pulled over he went on to me on how the cop was practically kissing his ass and being over polite, to ensure that he wasn't stopped for any other reason than that he was speeding 16 miles over the speed limit.

I agree with the reason for the boycott but I would be really disappointed if I lived there. They have only ever played in my city once, back in 1991. I wish I had known about the band back then.

perhaps you don't understand how it works. let me give you an example of police profiling. here in LA, we also have a problem with drug cartels and especially gang violence in connection, and there is rampant profiling by the sheriff and police. When I was a youth, it was a constant daily routine. then I grew dread and forgot about it until last year when I cut my hair, and BAM, back into profiling.

The police roll on EVERY thing walking with a bald head, period. and they don't ask politely either. they put you in hand cuffs, throw you in the car, talk a lot of shit, then find out your clean and let you go. soon as I bought a ball cap (which I think actually makes me look more gangster) the heat died back.

if the police on the daily patrol now can stop people simply for looking like an immigrant, then they will be rolling ALL kinds of people all day. profiling is fucked up. fuck that.

let the feds take care of that shit. if AZ wants to pay for a bunch of extra ICE agents to patrol the streets, fine, let it be, but don't give the fucked up police departments and local outback nazi law enforcement the authority and green light to indiscriminately discriminate against anyone who is not white.

and further, the governor is not acting alone, the governor is supported by a whole coalition of racist, ignorant and backwards mother fuckers from Arizona who agree with that law.

sorry bro, either support the youth or support the law, but don't bicker about such simple and straight forward shit.

and I didn't even read any of this bullshit here in the middle. dude, the law doesn't go into effect until July, how would shit change yet?

and LA is harsher about immigration? The police and sheriff haven't asked a SINGLE person about their immigration status since the 1970s, even up in the County (jail)..

we are a true and honest sanctuary city, and the people and government here constantly and continuously support not only our diverse population of hyphenated americans, but even and ESPECIALLY our ILLEGAL immigrant population..

If you're not happy with them not playing Arizona, then get off the fucking couch and see them in LA or wherever it's closest to where you live. See, Sonic Youth have never played in my country so I always had to travel to attend their gigs and once I even flew 800 miles to London, only to see them at their Daydream Nation gig. Yet I never wasted my time whining about that on a messageboard.

Slavo FTW.

YES the police profile, and it's fucked up and gross, but when the law passes they need to ask any and everybody they stop about there citizinship status. If they pull someone over who's white, black, asian, hispanic, native, whatever, and don't ask about the citizinship of whoever is in the vehicle, then the person who was stopped has perfect grounds for a winnable lawsuit. It's in the bill. Profiling happens everyday and everywhere, there's NO denying it. The point I'm trying to make is that just about every state along the northern and southern borders have laws against illegal border crossing, and I'm sure use profiling to pull off some of their stings or whatever. Why not just boycott all of these states? Why not just get rid of the borders all together? I'm not against the idea and I'm not supporting the bill, I am however clearing up the idea that people seem to have which is that everyone in the state needs to carry a passport, and that racial turmoil is rampant, and Rodney King beatings are happening on every corner. And it's a completely false image. That's why I say "life hasn't changed" because as of now that seems to be what everyone thinks is currently happening in AZ. I empathize and totally support both forms of immigrants who live here and think the law is BS, but as I've said it's being blown out of proportian. ICE has even come forward saying that they refuse to deport any illigal aliens out of AZ! SO why go on with all of this boycott crap when the end result of the law passing will probably be minute at best.

It's an election year and everybody has an agenda. Latinos are going to far outnumber every other race in america in the coming years, and crapping all over AZ because of this law is the perfect opportunity for politicians to woo their future voters. To hell with the citizens legal and illegal who are going to be negatively effected who oppose SB-17 but don't have the means to move.

Because dude, I'm a broke college student who can't afford a trip to the Grand Canyon let alone to California. A 28 dollar ticket and a quick bus ride I CAN afford. And exams are over for me and I have nothing else to do so I thought WHY NOT get on a message board and put out an opinion along with a suggestive thread title and see what people have to reply with. You've fallen right into my scheme.

I dunno, but if I were you I'd go out and look for some little jobs to earn some money and try to save enough to go and see my fav band in another state.
^ ^ ^ ^
said in the most sincere and not "sarcastic" tone.

Damn, such a concentrated hillarity after 4 posts!!!

edit: I've come up with a brilliant idea for you, but nicfit beat me to it in the previous post so I edited it out.

Its very strange to me why people feel its wrong to enforce the borders.

to be fair he has a point. Federal agents right now do things like raids on businesses, pulling over greyhound busses and so forth, asking people for papers and "illegals" get arrested on the spot. I'm Polish and you read stories of people getting arrested somewhere upstate NY on a weekly basis. Now all of a sudden AZ is a big deal, well protest the federal gov't and what they are doing too if you want to be consistent on the issue.

As to the boycott, you could go either way are you making more impact by boycotting or by going there making a concert to support the immigrants?

The Feds conduct patriot checks on the interstates in Vermont and NH looking for illegal Chinese.

If we want to be consistent they wouldn't play NY because NY is home for the US Abu Grabh - the dreaded immigration detention centers in Brooklyn and Manhattan - people disappear into those places for years without charges. Doomberg and his fascist lackey police chief have done like 500,000 warrantless stop and frisks here over the past year. That's everyday, 1000 citizens are stopped and searched for no legal reason. They don't do that in midtown - they do it Brownsville.

Europe has open borders at nearly every entrance to every single country.

oh yeah, I forgot, those people are not BROWN.

OP's name reminds me of how much I like street-tacos.

Does SY actually expect them not playing in AZ to have much of an effect on this issue?
I'm sure the governor is weeping at the state's loss of noise rock for a night. :rolleyes:

well the sheeple won't care or even generally know about it unless someone like Lady PooPoo signs on and you know her owners will never allow that to happen. To Dr Eugene's point, the Gov might be happy these people - artists - won't be coming to her state.

http://www.thesoundstrike.net/

would Arizona even LET Cypess Hill in under the new law??

ps: there goes the Micheal Moore festival toooo..

arizona will be upset when Los Tigres Del Norte can't come to jam their cumbia!

my brother lives in Nogales, for the right price, I could find them a nice tunnel.

"We'll show those damn government officials who's boss! We won't entertain the general public in their state! TAKE THAT YOU FASCIST BIGOTS!!!....oh wait."


Why don't they just scalp someone instead? Now that's how you get a message across.

a) do you fucking honestly believe that the cops are going to ask EVERYONE about citizenship? I hardly believe that they will not simply harrass and profile latinos and asians in this regard, and obviously you don't get profiled very often or you might be a bit more empathetic.

b) just because profiling happens, doesn't mean we should accept or promote it. they used to lynch niggers and cremate jews too ;)

c) again, the LAW HASN'T EVEN WENT INTO EFFECT YET! wait a year or two and see the results, you will have racism rampant in law enforcement..

d) so what if latinos become the largest group, why does that threaten you? America is a pluralistic society, why should white people have all the fun?



Borders are absolute and utter bullshit imaginary lines, why do people feel the need to arbitrarily enforce them? Fuck that, free borders for all, human migration is the constant factor of human existence and evolution, lets all face reality here.



But the difference is that those are FEDS, not local cops, and there is a LOT less feds patroling then local cops, so it is not a daily issue. Local cops should not be enforcing international issues like immigration. It is a conflict of interest. They have this problem up near Santa Barbara, where local PD are also ICE agents, and they have a SHITLOAD of problems with profiling and racism because of it. No body should be harrassed by the police because of nationality status, this shit is like the fucking Apartheid Dumpasses.. I don't even like having to give the cops ID, let alone to be asked for my social security card.


amen amen.

any of you who honestly believe that the cops will be fair in this and only ask for immigration status after a crime are being hopelessly naive. Here in LA it is a FEDERAL OFFENSE for a peace officer to conduct an unwarranted felony stop (ie, to hand cuff and place a person in their car when they stop you just even to say hello) and yet in the past year they have NEVER NOT felony stopped me, nor any of the other folks I know. They simply break the law, and what can we do? Complain? No, we just sit in handcuffs in the back of the car for no reason, patiently praying and waiting to be released and forget how much we have just been humiliated..

the biggest lie is that the Police are there to fight crime.

it is BULLSHIT

The police are there to POLICE/CONTROL the population. They arrive after crime is commited and their reports are what justifies insurance companies payouts.

[quote=SuchFriendsAreDangerous]a) do you fucking honestly believe that the cops are going to ask EVERYONE about citizenship? I hardly believe that they will not simply harrass and profile latinos and asians in this regard, and obviously you don't get profiled very often or you might be a bit more empathetic.

b) just because profiling happens, doesn't mean we should accept or promote it. they used to lynch niggers and cremate jews too ;)

c) again, the LAW HASN'T EVEN WENT INTO EFFECT YET! wait a year or two and see the results, you will have racism rampant in law enforcement..

d) so what if latinos become the largest group, why does that threaten you? America is a pluralistic society, why should white people have all the fun?



A. I'm not going to sit here and lie and claim that I get stopped and harassed, thrown into cop cars, threatened with deportation and the such when it doesn't happen to me! I HAVE however had to deal with individual people's sneering, judgemental, and unpleasant racist attitudes and totally know how it feels to be judged by the color of my skin. So yes, I can feel for others who are hispanic.

B. How radical, cool, and "ironic" of you to use the word "nigger" to get a point across. THAT'S offensive. Sarah Silverman fan right?

C. Read the bill! There are too many ways that Law Enforcement can come under fire with law-suits under SB-17 for blatant and obvious profiling. It's been made very clear that any and everybody has to be asked, everybody has to be profiled, and if you have a witness and not everybody in a stopped vehicle is asked about their status you have grounds for a lawsuit saying the police didn't profile you basically and a number of enforcement agencies are paranoid of the chances of being sued. And at this point AZ knows the government is keeping a close watchful eye on what's going on here, and I highly doubt anything will get out of hand. That's even suggesting that anything happens because LUCKILY nobody with pushing power supports the bill.

D. Hello! I'm freaking MEXICAN! It doesn't threaten me, I think it's fine I was simply stating a FACT and not even in a negative light. Jesus Christ dude. The fact that you read what I wrote and automatically flip it around to somehow be racist totally kills your credibility to me because it just makes you look paranoid and ready to pounce on anything you can take out of context and turn in your favor. :fuckyou:

I'm sorry if I came off strong here, but it seems clear you still don't see it, and its a shame really, because as you said, your a mexican, and this will most definitely affect you in a negative way. We in Rastafari are radically involved in liberation and social justice, and sometimes folks need to be shaken up, just as Marcus Garvey shook up the complacency and division of 'Negros' to empower and enlighten them under the banner of unity is strength. Its very simple, if your not against this bill, you are for it, even if only inadvertently. I am being rather forward on this thread to try to bully you into a corner to have to really reflect and react to the bill, really challenge you to take it to heart, and hopefully see the light, but hey life is life, see what you see, sorry if your offended, but truly some of your posts offended me and so I reacted accordingly.

Your posts about law enforcement have been hopelessly naive, perhaps I am rather jaded by my extremely negative experiences with law enforcement, that is my bias, but bias does not necessarily exonerate the bullshit of crooked cops. Seriously, the cops are not going to universally enforce this law, they are not going to ask white kids if they are citizens. Its very simple, cops are above the law, who is going to sue who? Poor people can't sue shit, we just get treated like shit. I can only speak the real on this, and nothing but. Cops are crooked and if you give them crooked ass racist laws like this one, you can only expect crooked ass racist behavior. As a mexican you should move not just to see sonic youth, but to save your ass from the kind of harrassment that others get all the time, welcome to the world of the low life my friend. The difference is fuck ups like me almost deserve to get harassed, but when they start doing the same thing not because of how you dress or what you smoke, but simply because of the color of your skin, then that shit is fucked up beyond explanation, and honestly if you can't see it, then I HOPE these bitch ass cops start fucking with so you can ;)

Fuck. I'd kill for a street taco right now.

And just for the record, I'm down for boycotting the entire southwest, if only because your harsh sun makes all of your women look like burnt-up husks by the age of 30.

Sure they are brown. And evan black. There are no borders within Europe. But - they established a new border around europe, to keep you guys out. Thousands of people are dying every year while trying to get in. Many of them are deported to camps in collaborating states like algeria. So, the europeans do the same to africans and others as the us-americans do to mexicans.

but sonic youth havent boycotted europe yet ... hm. And they havent boycotted the us either! So why are they boycotting AZ? Because they care? Dont believe the hype ...

africa is not directly connected to europe by over 1500 miles of border.

the US and mexico are.

africa is directly connected to europe by delievering their commodities to europe for free. thats why 36 million die every year by famine, and thats why they try to go to europe, where the white waste the commodities of the black. Furthermore, we have what we call the "new colonisation" in africa right now: the big european chains are cultivating their products for the european market in africa and let the africans work on the european farms for less the 1 Euro a day. so, in that sense, the connection cant be more directly. And thats the same sort of "connection" between US and mexico. The border isnt the point, the border is only in focus because of the economic "relationship". What the US do in south-america is what the europeans do in africa.

Boycotting various jurisdictions for sociopolitical reasons does nothing except alienate and infuriate certain segments of an act's fan base. Take Ted Nugent on one hand and Sir Paul McCartney and Morrisey on the other: their various extreme (and ill-informed) stands on issues surrounding hunting and animal rights have done nothing except cost them large portions of their fan bases in countries like Canada and the US.

true. much agreed.

Like it or not borders and countries are realities. A government must control its orders for social and economic reasons. I saw on the news once a woman at a pro-illegal immigration rally and she said something about "Everyone being able to live their American dream" well that's really nice but absolutely idiotic - you think the US can support 6 billion people?

You also need to have a single language.

Why do we feel the need to enforce them? well, there is a deep genetic memory of neighboring tribes laying waste to your land and village, killing all the men and making slaves of the women and children.

the US uses 50% of all the world's resources.
we make more $$$ as a country than 75% of the world put together.

we could afford to take over every other country and run it like the 50 current states.
there is no reason to stop at 50. it is an arbitrary number. AMake mexico a sate, puerto rico, canada, and then start adding all of the caribbean and south and central america. then it would truly be the United States of america.
just a crazy thought

exactly.



as it was pointed out above, Africans are the 'mexicans' and the 'illegals' of Europe, and in reality they often get treated even shittier!


You are mixing to many things, and even bordering on eugenics with that one ;)

Single language? Nonsense, that is very amero-centric of you to say, most countries speak several languages and things work out just fine, in fact that is precisely why the US has no official language in the first place. Be careful telsa, you are very much bordering on being a reactionary and not a revolutionary on this issue, and that is very surprising to me considering your usual postings (which I often enjoy and contribute towards)


speak the real.

Is that how it works? You decide that you are either a reactionary or a revolutionary, and then you automatically adopt the accepted views of one side or the other? What's wrong with forming an opinion on each issue individually? What's wrong with independent, intelligent thought?

revolutionary= independent, intelligent.

Exactly.

I am pretty much embarrassed about what tesla says, at least not because he is obviously not a revolutionar, but because what he says is not true. First, The US consume much more from other countreys as they give. Second, they have 90x more money as the whole world ever could spend. Both facts finally caused the financial crises. The Economy of the US is based on exploiting the rest of the world. They installed terroristic governnments in most of the south american countreys (and not only there) and made contracts with them on bringing the goods to the US.

In this sense you could say: yes, they need a man with a gun standing at the border, since someone has to have an eye on the booties.

Though - i know, what tesla says is what many think, and therefore its good to have this opinion here.

At least boycotting AZ seems to have a positive effect, if many people start to discuss the questions we do.


Something like this. I see tanks roling to canada right now ... no, i know what you want to say.

You want to know why mexicans come to the US? Start with this little story:

http://www.patentlyo.com/patent/2009...ly-cooked.html
http://www.globalexchange.org/countr...acyReport.html

then the more bigger problem:

http://www.economicpopulist.org/cont...-compete-china

and then the whole picture:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance..._trade_deficit

You must know what a "trade-deficit" is though, to understand the ideotism in the imagination of tesla about the "us supporting" someone. In fact, its the other way: Mexico is supporting the US, and so is the rest of the world. Not volentarily. Thats why Mexico is poor now. And some brave men want to get back what the US-Americans stole from them. Thats why we need a man with a gun in AZ.

edit: here are the data for the transfer of goods between US and Mexico:
http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c2010.html

For those who dont know what they mean: they say, that mexico is supporting the US with about 60 billion a year - not volentarily, but because the us dont pay what they take.

edit2: maybe you want to know exactly about the economic relationship between US and any other countrey? Choose a countrey from this list:
http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/index.html

All data are from the US-Government itself