Advice on buying a mixer
 

I'm trying to find myself a good mixer that will last me on a budget of 150£ (280-300$ for you Yanks).
Right now I'm looking at Mackies due to their high reputation and am hoping to bag a Mackie 1402 VLZ Mixer.
However, when declaring this to my papapa to get his credit card at the ready for tomorrow evening (when the bidding ends for one of these models) I got quite a long lecture on not knowing enough about mixers, it not being able to last with me (due to not being top of the range) and me not practising enough for getting a mixer to take me anywhere (though once my exams are over I'll be recording like hell onto this thing methinks).
So what I really need right now is that extra advice on what I'm doing, the Mackie's advantages and disadvantages, from anyone who thinks they're in the know.
Please, I need this...

do you want a mixer for live performance for analog recording or for computer recording?

you could impress pops by discoursing on the different requirements of each situation.

--

gotta go now but will check on this later.

Home-made computer recordings. Sorry for not mentioning that.

Anyway, I must sleep/lie awake for three hours. I'll check back on this thread. *departs*

a reasonable naptime. let me tell you if you want to do COMPUTER recordings what you need is a firewire interface and some mics. the firewire interface is superior to the mixer because it preserves every channel, so that you can tweak AFTERWARDS instead of freezing the mix at the time of recording.

oh yeS!!

papapapa will be impressed when you show him this:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_u...hile-main.html

$249 is less than 150 pounds so maybe you can go a little upscale. but whatever you do never forget to thank the old man for teaching you to apply your brains before you spend your money. go and kiss his hand now in gratitude.

if you need more options, scheck:

http://www.zzounds.com/cat--Firewire...terfaces--2420

yes that is not a british site i know. but the mackie

http://www.zzounds.com/item--MAC1402VLZIII

will not preserve those 16 channels for later touchup.

oh no.

anyway, i should go shower & scrub. i am feeling a bit, hm, rank.

ok things to look for in both sound cards and mixers: ok firstly with mixers, you need to know how many mic inputs you want, how many line inputs you, do you plan to use a condensor microphone if so you will need something that has phantom power which will allow you to use condensors and di's, you need to listen to the mic preamps of different desks to see which sound better because their are alot of shoddy products on the market waiting to be sold to people who aren't sure what they need or want. fader length... alot of the smaller footprint consoles have 60mm fader throws which sucks a bit, 100mm faders are better just for sheer control. how many auxilliary in/outs do you want for fx and monitoring etc? xlr3 outputs are preferable to 1/4 jack outputs. are the outputs balanced or unbalanced? are the line inputs balanced or unbalanced? is there metering on every channel, does the desk have direct outputs on each channel? do you need it for your purposes? if the desk doesn't have directouts then you won't be able to record mulitple channels at once because you will only be able to send out in stereo via your master faders, or you will have to set up a stereo aux send. how much eq is there on each channel? any questions about any of this just ask.... rather than the vlz i would probably go the onyx 1220 with the fireward card than you have you soundcard and some fairly good mixing capability on an alright sounding desk, however i would look at small format soundcraft consoles, allen and heath, even midas have a small fun console now however midas, soundcraft and allen and heath may be a little extra from the wallet but you are garunteed quality and long lasting joy

ok soundcards, i would stay away from the mboxes if you aren't going to use protools because they don't function well with other software, the preamps aren't that good and they are probably also out of the price range you are looking at. brands i know and trust and are reliable are motu, edirol, rme, presonus, metric halo, focusrite. i am not a fan of m-audio sound cards because they are structurally fairly weak and they also sound on the less than average side for my ears but they may suit exactly what you want to do. look for similar things in a soundcard as i have outlined for the console, phantom power, how many ins/outs do you need, is it fire wire or usb, what sort of monitoring options does it have, again you need to listen to the preamps....


http://www.soundcraft.com/product_sh...product_id=121

http://www.midasconsoles.com/venice.html have a look at the spec for the venice 160

http://www.allen-heath.com/uk/wz_series.asp

i have an alesis 12 channel USB mixer and it works pretty dang okay. i use it for performance and recording and it does everything i need.

looks not too bad, how much was it

i wanna say it was right around 200 USD + sales tax. there's one's for cheaper with 8 and maybe even 6 channels and i'm sure you can find them even cheaper on ebay.

Aw shiz, thanks, but the interfaces you showed me, !@#$%!, would they be able to record a whole band all at once? (this would be needed in the near future, a vocal mic, a bass mic, a guitar mic, two drum mics, violin mic and what have you (which would amount to 6+ mics))

And terminal pharmacy, I'm honestly really not good with all this tech speak though I appreciate your help no end, is it OK if someone can explain it all out fully to me? =\

to boil down some of terminal pharmacy's points:

there are 2 basic types of microphone: dynamic & condenser. dynamic mics work just like that; condenser mics require "phantom power" which is an added voltage provided by a mic preamp.

xlr jacks are better than 1/4"

balanced vs. unbalanced

metering... ah, find everything here:
http://www.dfwsound.com/glossary.html

he's got a point also about m-audio cards/firewire interface.

i think you need to read a little more before your purchase. is it possible to stall a few days? might earn you the chance to get more $ for it because it will be well thought out.

Oh yeah, if I give you a few days to find something fantastic for me of around 300$/150£ I'll be more than happy. That would be ace.
I'm cramming in on the terms right now.

1. Don't buy Behringer
2. Get one with Phantom power

amen to the phantom power thing.

i'd recommend something like this:

 

That was so funny I forgot to laugh.

ok for what you want to do Rob a whole band (and if you want them all on seperate channels) you will need things that are out of your price range, but if you just want to have a stereo recording of a mix of your band you will be fine with what you want. I have a motu taveller which is a nice sound soundcard this is 22 inputs and 22 outputs however only four micro phone preamps with phantom power; so I also have a digital console (o1v96v2) which has direct outs on every channel which allow me to get all my audio signals going to seperate channels in my rec software. These things are not cheap. You can do what you want with that mackie vlz and get reasonable quality recordings but you will have to work alot on your mix from the desk before you even hit record because you will only be able to record a stereo track unless you are going to buy a soundcard as well.

obviously you can track your drums, then your guitars, basses then vox seperately which will give you multiple stereo tracks withing your software.

Fair enough - that can do for now - Thanks for your help!
So I guess I could be settling for a 4 input-at-a-time interface thing and a soundcard?
I'll see what !@#$%! has to offer.

you dont need a desk and a soundcard just a sound card will do, but you will have to track everything individually, i would recommend that you just get a sound card with 2 mic inputs and away you go, unless of course you want to get a very basic knowledge of using mixing consoles.

cardinal rob, in this case soundcard=firewire interface, it's the same thing

your computer has a soundcard (what you hear through the speakers), but rather than jack your mixer into it, with all the additional componets & electronics & distortion, you feed the audio signal through its own little shielded box & firewire cable, with the added benefit that all the channels from your mix are preserved for whatever multitrack software you choose to work with.

Oh yeah, I have really horrorshow software to work with already which has a decent lot of things a 'traditional' mixer would have - Thanks for clarifying that with me anyway chaps. So would your first link be the definite choice - or saying I have the money would I buy something a grade higher? Damnit you guys are good.

it depends. since you're a beginner i'd start with cheap & save the rest of the money for microphones. what the point of having a kickass interface and no mics to jack into it.

terminal pharmacy is light years ahead of you so his point of view is going to be a lot more hm whats the world... refined.

but vallhollaing talked about an alesis USB mixer that ive seen , its quite cheap. however ive heard doubting reviews saying that it's bad to cram all those channels through a usb interface, unless it's USB2. but firewire is always better.

however-- do you need the best & more expensive now? i think not... ask vallhollaing to send you more info on his macheeen. if it works for him, why wouldn't it work for you?

---
ps i think it might be this one he has
http://www.alesis.com/products/multimix8usb/

this is what i would recommend for a beginner - presonus firebox

it comes with cubase LE as well so you will get a decent bit of software slightly scaled back. The presonus stuff has reasonable mic preamps plus phantom power so you will be able to do what you want. That is for a start. then you could buy a desk in the near future if you want to record more than two mics at once.

oh that looks sweet + great quality

the link is kinda broken though, here is the repost: http://presonus.com/firebox.html

i'd ask however, how do you deal with the limited 4 inputs? or is that all he should handle at the moment? wouldn't it be better (he'll get something else down the road) to get something cheesier but with more inputs so he can experiment?

hm... hm...

yeah i think you're right it's best to start simple. (not that you explicitly said that, ha hah).

damn, i might pick one up for myself.

w00t ^_______^
Do they all have the SPDIF breakout cable as illustrated, and would it be possible to use unbalanced 1/4" leads in those holes or wherever as I don't have much of this balanced shizzy? Plus I already have recording software, so is there a package for a similar price I can get with a better interface and no Cubase software?

spdif you can use normal rca leads like you would find on your home stereo, however spdif only handles two track digital in and out. for what you want to spend you wont get anything better really. and nearl everything comes with scaled down software. by the way, what rec software r u using???

Tahnks. 'm using Sonar 6 Producer Edition.

Chop onions, mince garlic, grate cheese (hard or soft) and do virtually any job in the kitchen all in 10 seconds or less - with no mess and no fuss. Yet it takes up no more space on your counter than a coffee mug. It's so versatile and so easy you'll use it every single day of the week.
It truely is Amazing.

That was about as funny as AIDs.

when r u going to buy your new toy Cardinal Rob