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Old Today, 12:26 AM   #6621
Bytor Peltor
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If they haven’t already done so, over the next 7-10 days we all have a front row seat to the Democrats blowing any shot at 2020......transparency???

Two months after the Election, the winners assumed their seats and the Democrats plan moving forward???

Is their bitterness so strong that they are truly considering spending more money and time on Mueller’s findings and launching new investigations?

Personally, I don’t think the Democratic Freshmen want any part of this, but they are stuck dealing with Chuck and Nancy.

And here locally at SYG......who knew Skuj displayed the most common sense by activating his ignore list while sticking his head in the sand. I applaud you Skuj, because those actions were the wiser options to these sad rebuttals and responses displayed here over the weekend.
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Old Today, 07:41 AM   #6622
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuhb
I'm not sure about Derek, but what I meant by 'Fox News talking points' is the immediate deflection of anything mildly resembling 'big government' to Soviet/Chinese famines. It's a regularly used tactic by disingenuous right wing pundits and the 'don't tread on me' crowd, and now a tactic used by liberals to attempt to attack the social democratic wing of the Democratic party.


oh, that, fair enough, if we use the same comparisons then we do. i do not watch fox because i do not like it, but on your recommendation maybe i should start ha ha ha


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuhb
If you're into your logic and reason, claiming that this deflection is valid because you've lived or worked in nationalised industries etc is both an anecdotal fallacy and an appeal to authority fallacy.


yes, again, fair enough. in my defense i’ll just say that i was not attempting to deduce any conclusions, because for me the disaster of statism and central planning are more of an empirical and historical matter. my preference for market solutions is the same way. i find them empirically superior in most cases.

there are logical/theoretical proofs of why those systems do not work, but i did not attempt them here.

thanks for pointing that out

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuhb
I'm Polish, I've known my fair share of authoritarian government... it wouldn't make a claim that reinstituting New Deal-like reforms will lead to famines any more valid on account of my Polish-ness. But I think this is a pedantic way of conducting a debate... it's just that you seemed to be insisting.
well, sure, im pedantic, won’t deny. a personality flaw. at some point i have to own it. i don’t know another way, but i’d rather do this than lie.

also i believe i mostly offered you an explanation of why i think why i think. yes?

but about the new deal: we don’t need a new deal or new deal-like policies.

the new deal was actually the american response to rising communist and socialist parties during the depression era. it adopted some of their programs and rhetoric and in doing so it coopted their membership and took the wind out of their sails. it replaced the ideology of international socialism with a more nationalistic one.

the new deal created a number of jobs programs and a huge government bureaucracy to deal with unemployment. it was full of good intentions, but in retrospect it looks like it prolonged the great depression instead of ending it.

now we have full employment and monetary solutions to fiscal problems that were not understood in the 30s.

we can fix capitalism without destroying its productivity or disrupting markets. we can get big money out of writing laws and it will be hard but it starts by recognizing that corporations are not people. we can have a fairer and simpler tax system. we can we can have social programs that help people with actual problems without creating perverse incentives. we can have universal health care without having to establish a government monopoly. we can improve education without having runaway costs and debts. we can help workers deal with economic dislocation without hurting the consumer. we can have market solutions to climate and environmental problems that unleash more creativity and ingenuity than any government entity. we can get billionaires to pay more taxes without unrealistically treating them like the infinite resource they aren’t.

this is of course all a matter of discussion, but now it’s monday morning for me and i have the same problems you had earlier.

anyway i appreciate the exchange, i do, always glad to test things out in a fair discussion, as long as it is a fair discussion. so if we can keep it that way, great.

ok happy mondays.
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Old Today, 07:47 AM   #6623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
that’s what you think you’ve been doing? lol ok
I have, and we've both slung shit at each other in proportionate amounts too lol
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Old Today, 07:54 AM   #6624
Derek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor
Personally, I don’t think the Democratic Freshmen want any part of this, but they are stuck dealing with Chuck and Nancy.
For sure, young leftists are rolling their eyes at the older liberal obsession with COLLUSION!! They could have spent the past 2 years pushing policies and ideas but instead its just ended up as a hollow act of political theatre.
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Old Today, 07:59 AM   #6625
Derek
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Also anyone spouting "secret indictments on the way!!!" like its some hidden truth that they're only privy to should really just consider joining QAnon. It's the same thing but its a bit funnier.
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Old Today, 08:31 AM   #6626
Robert Schunk
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Actual news footage of liberal San Franciscans listening to the announcement of the Mueller report:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3ou1QfhQI

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Old Today, 08:38 AM   #6627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek
I have, and we've both slung shit at each other in proportionate amounts too lol

ha ha, maybe... but we shouldn’t need to, even when we disagree, right?
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Old Today, 08:40 AM   #6628
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Roseanne Barr made the determination of no obstruction. Partisan.
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Old Today, 08:54 AM   #6629
Derek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
ha ha, maybe... but we shouldn’t need to, even when we disagree, right?
Sometimes some shit slinging is necessary but politics ain't personal baby
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Old Today, 10:44 AM   #6630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Schunk
Actual news footage of liberal San Franciscans listening to the announcement of the Mueller report:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3ou1QfhQI


I chuckled.
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Old Today, 05:11 PM   #6631
Bytor Peltor
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One Place Mueller Never Comes Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek
They could have spent the past 2 years pushing policies and ideas but instead its just ended up as a hollow act of political theatre.
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